Ban Appeal

[Karmac]

Your Byond/Ckey Username: karmac 

Your character name (if relevant): Garth Pawolski

Who were you banned by: bloxgate


Date of ban: 27/05/2019

Length of ban: Until appeal

Full ban reason: Shot an ONI guard as Marine

Appeal details/ Why should you be unbanned: I can virtually guarantee this issue was not investigated, as the ONI personnel in question had been given multiple opportunities to stand down, and continued hostilities before I had even attempted to shoot at them. In my eyes this was a justified conflict, and I don't understand why a staff member decided to step in and take control of the situation. I'm also unsure of why blox felt it necessary to simply skip straight to banning me, instead of asking me about the issue, or even explaining to me what I did was wrong.

For further context as to why me and numerous other marines in the round would even consider attacking ONI personnel, we'd broken multiple ROE's during the round due to going a little overboard with our assaults, and ended up being investigated by an ERT. The marines took the chance to evacuate the Bertels entirely due to knowing they'd most certainly be found out for their crimes, some of us landed on VT9 and were met with immediate hostility from ONI security, some of us even being shot at. We had no shuttle, no allies and nowhere to go so we used the comms relay tunnel to launch a surprise raid on the base, in an attempt to secure a living space and supplies. We gave all base personnel an opportunity to surrender without fighting and one guard did, the others we took down that did not comply were not executed and kept alive as captives. I feel the entire scenario was roleplayed out sufficiently and that admins on at the time had ample ability to stop us before before things got to be what they considered 'out of hand'.

I'd also like to petition for the unbanning of the other marines related to this incident, as none of them acted any differently to how I did, and feel they too have been wrongly banned.

[BDpuffy420]

There are no group appeals

[Karmac]

Fine then I'm just appealing for myself if that's how it is, I just wanted to point out the other's that were banned for this same issue were not handled properly either.

[BDpuffy420]

So full explanation from the staff before I got on, for posterity:
* Cael says that they're doing shenanigans to prisoners
* Myself (Bloxgate), one of the mods, and an ERT spawn in and let the Bertels know we're doing an inspection
* We arrive and start talking to the prisoners/crew
* One of the crew fakes getting sick or something when we ask them to let us talk to the prisoners alone
* Asian_047 faxes highcom saying we're innies pretending to be odsts (from logs)
* Karamc tells crew he's removing the nav chip from the bertels (from logs)
* The crew decides to have a person try and hold us off (from logs)
* Myself and the other inspectors try and run to the bridge when we realize what's happening
* The ODPs fire on the Bertels and the three of us die from the fire
* The crew bails to VT9
* Once I'm sure what happened, I send a command report saying what happened
* They try to spin it to VT9 - but VT9 doesn't buy it and tries to arrest them
* I send a command thing to VT9 saying that since they're being shot at they can defend themselves with lethals if needed
* The marines overpower VT9

Also this: `[04:40:35] b1s-aoEk SAY: Garth Pawolski/Karmac : Let's show these ONI cucks what for`

[Karmac]

Alright, I'd liked proof as to where they tried to arrest us, as that did not occur even once.

In addition, if you check the logs you'll see I called for the ONI guards to stand down numerous times before firing on them, only doing so after one of them primed a grenade and attempted to throw it at me.

And if you truly believe we went there for the sole sake of shitlery, do explain why we didn't deem it necessary to kill any guards, as we did infact secure them all ultimately alive.

Besides this, the ONI base had not only refused to allow us entry, they threatened to kill us for 'tresspassing' while outside of the base, and had shot at a marine 'Beauford Pumpernickle' without provocation. Given we were on the run from UNSC forces to begin with I don't see why it wouldn't be illogical for us to attempt to take control of the ONI base to stop them getting word out about our location.

---

I will take responsibility for the deaths of those ODST's however, as it was not my intention for the Bertel's to be destroyed. I somehow made the mental connection that taking out the chip would stop it from flying, to prevent them chasing down our escape pods. Not a smooth move on my behalf.

[bloxgate]

Hi,

I'd just like to specify normally I wouldn't have been involved in any of the banning for this, I was just the only administrator still online at the time as the other moderator had left after the ODP incident. I've sent Russle the relevant section of the logs I had access to, and timestamps of the stuff involved, so he'll be handling this appeal I believe.

Alright, I'd liked proof as to where they tried to arrest us, as that did not occur even once.

The following command report was sent after it was determined you'd destroyed the Bertels:

[04:50:40] b1s-aoEk ADMIN: Bloxgate/(Brennan Lacon) has created a command report: Attention UNSC Bertels Crew, emergency military tribunal #55472 has found you guilty of treason.

A warrant for your arrests has been issued.

Shortly after this a firefight broke out between a group of guards and marines. There were calls for surrender from several people involved. Unfortunately I wasn't able to see exactly who was involved in which firefights, or for which side (as you all had UNSC roles). At this point, I had already contacted other staff for assistance as I was somewhat involved in the incident. No one was available within the next 10 minutes or so, so I was forced to continue dealing with things. 

As I observed around the base I saw several more seeming to get into firefights, so ~2 minutes after the firefight broke out I authorized the surviving guards to use lethal force as several people had been shot/blown up at this point.

After this I requested more staff help again, and was told I was good to handle the ahelp queue that built up regarding the fight. I applied bans for people mentioned where attack logs confirmed that they had fired on ONI guards. As I finished the first two tickets in the queue, Russle joined and started handling things. It was at this point I was able to start going back through the main game log and figure out the conversations and non-attack actions before the firefight started. Again, I've sent @BDpuffy420 the timestamps in the logs for immediately after my first command report and leading up to the force authorization. Along with some select timestamps near important looking conversations.

I would like to make it absolutely clear, that the lethal force was only authorized after people had already begun shooting. No one had my, or another admin's permission, to shoot at each other when everything hit the fan.

[Karmac]

Alright, I must have missed the announcement of the arrest warrant, I'll admit that much, but at no point was an arrest attempt actually made against us. Unless it was called for us to stand down over the radio, which we likely would have missed due to changing our frequencies to be able to talk freely. That's more the point I wanted to make here really.

I understand the situation was a bit of a clusterfuck, but in future situations I would recommend taking the time to put the round on hold while you sort out what turned out to be a major issue. Not to critique anyone's ability to perform as a staff member, I just personally found it rather jarring to be met with no warning and a simple ban message, didn't come off as rather caring on your behalf from my point of view.

[BDpuffy420]

Alright, I must have missed the announcement of the arrest warrant, I'll admit that much, but at no point was an arrest attempt actually made against us. Unless it was called for us to stand down over the radio, which we likely would have missed due to changing our frequencies to be able to talk freely. That's more the point I wanted to make here really.

I understand the situation was a bit of a clusterfuck, but in future situations I would recommend taking the time to put the round on hold while you sort out what turned out to be a major issue. Not to critique anyone's ability to perform as a staff member, I just personally found it rather jarring to be met with no warning and a simple ban message, didn't come off as rather caring on your behalf from my point of view.

Do note by the time I got there I was already looking into things and when I finally got to your Ckey the player panel showed you disconnected from the server so you were just handed a ban.

[Karmac]

I mean that makes literally no sense, because I was banned moments after we'd secured the front gate and I'd gotten out of a warthog, only to be disconnected via ban. So I'm unsure if that's an issue on the server end because it didn't show I was actually online and actually doing shit, or what. You can check with the other marines online at the time that I had not in fact disconnected willingly.

[BDpuffy420]

Well in the end you all shall be watched a little more closely and I shall lift the ban.