Bring ODSTs back (Bring the boys back home again)

[Focks]

As of a recent update, ODSTs have been moved over to the ONI prowler, and a majority of times they're played as government spooks. Not only is it inconsistent with the purpose of the ODSTs by and large, as they are special forces and still fall under the UNSC Marine Corps.  It's also a frustration to players, the government spooks are more often than not off on their own incongruent mission, leaving the marines in a bad place and not assisting them because "You're not allowed to know why I'm here", or operating outside of the chain-of-command and attempting to be their own separate force entirely from the UNSC.

I'm suggesting the 4 man team be reinstated on the UNSC frigate, as the wiki page on ODSTs mentions  that "[They] maintain units of varying strength aboard many UNSC vessels and installations". And as James mentioned on the discord, the prowler being set up for various ERTs. Someone mentioned break-ins of the ODST armory being an issue, if this is the case, I suggest moving it to some unused space, perhaps somewhere on deck-1, where it's not easily accessable, and just give ODSTs higher access around the ship.

Hopefully moving them back to the frigate would help increase cohesion between the ODSTs and regular marines, as bringing them back under the same chain-of-command and having them as part of the crew puts them back in a much more integrated position.

I'm sure I've missed something, and I'd love to see where this goes, and what people have to add or detract from it.

Special thanks to Kudzu for being my editor and helping me sort  the post!

[Caelum]

+1 Agree

Tired of Spec Ops Secret Agent ODST.

Also, for people breaking into the ODST room- ODST vendors are unhackable and locked. This isn't even a problem anymore.

This also means ERT might be able to be ONI ODSTs/SPARTANs, ONI will be rarer and a cooler event, honestly it a good thing all around.

[subdon]

+1 Agreed

And here is my opinion on why:

Lore Side: ODST are marine soldiers, spec ops but still marines under the command of the marine branch (ONI is its own branch), ONI has their own soldiers, has their own branch to work with.

Mechanic side: it would make no sense to put a spec ops TIED to assist the marines (since aparently from what i been told ONI officers STILL answer directly to the CO) under the command of the CO AWAY from their reach/briefing posibilities.

[Wehraboo]

It's not out of lore for ONI to borrow a squad or two, it literally happens in Halo ODST. Of course the majority are under the wraps of the military.

[Focks]

It's not out of lore for ONI to borrow a squad or two, it literally happens in Halo ODST. Of course the majority are under the wraps of the military.

True, but it was also stated as being odd and out of the ordinary, and it makes more sense for those odd cases to be the ERT/special event troopers, and not the primary detachment that you get 1 or 2 of every round.

[Wehraboo]

I can agree with that.

[Eonoc]

+1 agree.

We pretty much tend to just deploy to help the marines anyway. Could have ONI ODST be a seperate role also covered by whitelist.
ODST Rifleman for Heaven Above ODSTs, and ODST whitelisters can join as that
or ONI ODST for SPEKOPS ODSTs, also whitelist, or possibly response team only. *shrug*
That might be adding too many slots, but we hardly ever fill up with ODSTs anyway. I think I can count on one hand the amount of times we've had a full group.

[Flaksim]

As of a recent update, ODSTs have been moved over to the ONI prowler, and a majority of times they're played as government spooks. Not only is it inconsistent with the purpose of the ODSTs by and large, as they are special forces and still fall under the UNSC Marine Corps.  It's also a frustration to players, the government spooks are more often than not off on their own incongruent mission, leaving the marines in a bad place and not assisting them because "You're not allowed to know why I'm here", or operating outside of the chain-of-command and attempting to be their own separate force entirely from the UNSC.

I'm suggesting the 4 man team be reinstated on the UNSC frigate, as the wiki page on ODSTs mentions  that "[They] maintain units of varying strength aboard many UNSC vessels and installations". And as James mentioned on the discord, the prowler being set up for various ERTs. Someone mentioned break-ins of the ODST armory being an issue, if this is the case, I suggest moving it to some unused space, perhaps somewhere on deck-1, where it's not easily accessable, and just give ODSTs higher access around the ship.

Hopefully moving them back to the frigate would help increase cohesion between the ODSTs and regular marines, as bringing them back under the same chain-of-command and having them as part of the crew puts them back in a much more integrated position.

I'm sure I've missed something, and I'd love to see where this goes, and what people have to add or detract from it.

Special thanks to Kudzu for being my editor and helping me sort  the post!


What I noticed from this, and most of the replies in this thread is that everyone is missing the main issue here:
a majority of times they're played as government spooks.

The issue is not the separate vessel, its use which can be argued, but rather how ODST players interpret their character.
What I constantly see happening is ODST's acting like they're the shit and marines are idiotic scrublords.
In addition you see ODST's acting like they're a deathsquad for ONI, which also isnt fully correct. Ofcourse ONI operators frequently insert themselves within the regular chain of command, just look at the entire Harvest chain of evens where the guy commanding the colonial militia covertly was an ONI spook.
So no, it isnt unheard of, nor illogical for an ONI officer to command a squad of ODST's or even regular marines. What the actual problem here is, is the way the ODST players are RP'ing their characters.
((And if they really wanna be dicks, the only ones they'd have a beef with as per lore are spartans, as chief killed some of their guys in a gym at one point.)

[Focks]

From my experience, most of the government spook attitude comes from the fact they're on an ONI prowler and aren't integrated in with the crew. When they were still part of the frigate crew, sure they did the gung-ho "marines are scrubs and we're not" routine, but the ticket stopped there. Since the introduction of the prowler, it's increased ten-fold to this whole super-secret operation deal.

And again, with ONI spooks being covertly inserted, yes, it happens, no it's not normal, and it would probably make a great admin event sometime, but not your run of the mill round. I'm not saying the prowler should be removed, just that the "normal" ODSTs don't belong there. I'm also not disagreeing that it's how the ODSTs are RPing, but the prowler sets up the precedent and the idea that ONI spooks is exactly what they are, especially given there's an ONI officer role that's the only other role that specifically spawns on the prowler.

[Flaksim]

From my experience, most of the government spook attitude comes from the fact they're on an ONI prowler and aren't integrated in with the crew. When they were still part of the frigate crew, sure they did the gung-ho "marines are scrubs and we're not" routine, but the ticket stopped there. Since the introduction of the prowler, it's increased ten-fold to this whole super-secret operation deal.

And again, with ONI spooks being covertly inserted, yes, it happens, no it's not normal, and it would probably make a great admin event sometime, but not your run of the mill round. I'm not saying the prowler should be removed, just that the "normal" ODSTs don't belong there.  I'm also not disagreeing that it's how the ODSTs are RPing, but the prowler sets up the precedent and the idea that ONI spooks is exactly what they are, especially given there's an ONI officer role that's the only other role that specifically spawns on the prowler.

I disagree on moving them back, if only because it allows them to be deployed later in the round, as they supposedly arrive when things escalate. 
That being said however, I will make provisions for adding them in again when I remodel deck 4, which is soon ish. (Lets face it, deck 4 is shite and the frig is a tad too big atm :p)
(The decision is not mine either way, I'll just make sure that whatever is decided, there's a map option to go with it.)